Working from the Cricket: What It Means for Workplace Flexibility and Productivity

Nikolai Beilharz: Start today though, of course, no doubt you've heard of work from home became such a big thing during the peak of COVID and has remained a part of the workplace for at least some people. What about instead of working from home, working from the cricket? The Sheffield Shield has just begun, South Australia taking on the Vics in Melbourne at the moment. And one of the ticket offerings caught our eye—this is the Victorian equivalent of SACA. So you've got the normal traditional adult tickets, concession tickets, kids tickets and the like. There is also a work from the shield option. So it's a few dollars more than normal entry, but you get access to function spaces at the Junction Oval, you get access to Wi-Fi, and a free tea or coffee as well. And the marketing argument behind it is don't work from home, work from the cricket. What do you think about that? If you're a big cricket fan you might love it, if you're a boss, is it a bit cheeky to say I'm working as hard as I can, I swear, but I am just keeping a bit of an eye on the cricket? Or is the workplace dynamic shifted, is it a more acceptable these days to have a mix rather than just the pure focus on work? Again, sure you've got thoughts on this 0467 922 891. To talk about it this afternoon we're joined by Natasha Hawker, who's founder of Employee Matters, HR and recruitment provider in Australia. Natasha, good to talk to you this afternoon.

Natasha Hawker: Great, thanks for having me.

Nikolai Beilharz: What do you think about this as an idea?

Natasha Hawker: Look, I don't think employers are going to accept it. Working from home should just be that... it should be work. Not with the distraction of a great cricket match, not to mention the crowd noise. Like, you can hardly do a conference call with thousands of "Howzat!" going on in the background.

Nikolai Beilharz: And that's clearly a part of it, because I think it's fair to say, and I don't mean this in a disparaging way, but crowd attendances at Sheffield Shield matches aren't huge. They're taking place during the week when a lot of people are working, so clearly it's an effort to try and get some more people to head along to the ground. From the employer's perspective though, is it as obvious as it seems really, that you think, am I really going to get as much attention and effort put in if you're at a cricket ground as if you were sitting in a spare room at home with a laptop?

Natasha Hawker: No, look, I think people should be taking annual leave and be fully focused. Australians lose some 600 hours per year per employee to multitasking, without even factoring in a cricket match. So they say the distractions... if you have a distraction, it can take you 23 minutes and 15 seconds to get back on track. The error rates also increase by some 27%. So imagine if you had a fabulous cricket match and there's multiple superb catches, then every time there's a great catch, they're losing those 23 minutes. And if you think of ten catches, that's almost four hours or half a day, so you know, it's not going to be incredibly productive work for the employer or the employee.

Nikolai Beilharz: Can an employer stipulate, okay yes you can do that, but I need to see the proof that you are still working?

Natasha Hawker: Look, what is reasonable is what they can ask for. So what I'm thinking here is, like, can you work anywhere is the obvious question. And you can, within reason. So for example, it would be perfectly reasonable for someone to say, hey I'm going to go and live in Vietnam for three weeks, I'm going to see Mum and Dad, I'm happy to continue working, I'm going to adjust my hours, I've got great Wi-Fi, and an employer might give them that option. Another person might say I'm going to do a couple of hours in a cafe because that's great thinking time for them, or they want a change of scenery, or they want to replicate the hustle and bustle of the workplace. But I'm going to be cheeky here, imagine if you're working at the cricket and you get hit in the head by a cricket ball. Now is this going to be a workers comp claim to your employer because you were technically working? That's going to make it a very expensive day at the office for that employer. I'm being cheeky here, but visibly, they could run an argument that they were at work.

Nikolai Beilharz: Well look, continuing on the cheeky theme, because this might fall into the same kind of category. I wonder when I was thinking about this, okay from the employee's point of view, if you're trying to sell it to your manager or whoever it might be, could you say, well look, this could be a networking opportunity. Is that a legitimate argument? You say look I'll meet clients there and you build relationships and that kind of side of things?

Natasha Hawker: I love their thinking, but I think it's unlikely to be good for networking in as in how are you going to know that the person you're sitting next to actually works in your industry? It's random. Having said that though, let's be really clear about this, client entertainment at sporting fixtures has always been a really big thing. You know, you have a box and you take your best clients to it, and that is actually networking and working at the same time. And some great deals and business gets done in those scenarios. But I think randomly sitting in a seat in the grandstand with your laptop on your knee, I don't think you're going to get much work done.

Nikolai Beilharz: I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one. 0467 922 891 or you can call us on 1300 222 891. 13 past 3 is the time, we're talking about this initiative that's been put forward by the Victorian equivalent of the SACA, the Sheffield Shield is underway again. South Australia taking on Victoria in Melbourne, and they do have work from the shield as an option to head along. Interestingly, I saw earlier today Natasha that because it's in a function space, those tickets have actually sold out. So there must either be I guess enough sole traders or enough bosses who have ticked off on it and said okay.

Natasha Hawker: Yeah look, I think if you're a sole trader that's a very different thing. But you know the other thing that comes to mind too, you talked about free Wi-Fi, there's a massive security risk. If you're putting your company's data out on free Wi-Fi, if you haven't got proper coverage there, so there's another risk from an employer's perspective there. So I think it's a fabulous gimmick from a marketing, and look, their results from a marketing campaign perspective and it also sounds like plenty of people have bought the tickets. But you know, it might be those solopreneurs that actually have a bit of flexibility and if they get a bit bored at the cricket they're happy to go in there and do that, and that's up to them. But I think if you're working for an employer legitimately it may not fly.

Nikolai Beilharz: If we look at this a bit more broadly, ok so not just specifically on the cricket, but as you were mentioning maybe you put a case forward to work overseas for a time or to spend some time working from a cafe, in a relatively tight labour market, do you get the sense that employees have a bit more power to bargain for those kinds of fringe benefits for want of a better term?

Natasha Hawker: It is still a tight market, although we're seeing at Employee Matters it's definitely loosening up, I definitely think we're getting an increase in the number of applications we're getting for a role. But I've always said, we did an exceptional job in Australia when COVID hit at literally picking up our desks and our computers and choosing to work from home or being forced to work from home overnight. What we weren't so good at is how do we manage a remote workforce team and training managers to trust their employees or manage on results. If what doesn't get measured doesn't get done. And I think that is where we've come a bit unstuck, and I think there is a lack of trust in some parts of management where if I can't see you sitting in your desk typing away, then you're not productive. And that's not the case at all, some people get their best work done when they're working from home. And you often, the statistics actually have shown that you actually often get more hours out of an employee that's working from home than less. So when done well, it's exceptional.

Nikolai Beilharz: And is that because you, for almost inherently knock out the commuting time? And I think it probably comes back too to one of those key words that you mentioned there was trust, and how much trust there is between an employee and employer.

Natasha Hawker: It's absolutely trust. And look let's face it, you're absolutely right, we've knocked out the commute, but often the individual sees their desk there and they're actually sitting there, and because they don't have to commute they're often spending longer hours. That brings in some other risks, are you actually incurring an overtime payment for those people that are working from home when they've gone over their daily hours? Trust is absolutely key, trust begets trust. I can guarantee you can get your hands on some of the best employees in the market if you have flexibility. Our clients, when we're recruiting for them, if they genuinely offer flexibility, they get the best and the brightest candidates coming to them and they can take their pick. And then you get a lift in productivity because it's not about, you know, a B grade or a C grade employee, you're getting an A grade employee and getting much more bang for your buck out of what they're doing for you.

Nikolai Beilharz: And is that also the case then if I don't know if it's set explicitly or almost kind of implied in some cases that you know if you're working from home and it's a sunny day like it is today, maybe you will chuck a load of washing on and you'll go and hang it out and that will take you away from your work for some time, but then you return to that work? The kind of level of acceptance around that too?

Natasha Hawker: I have a remote work team, I've done it for 15 years now, so it's our norm. And I would argue giving those people, and predominantly women so we've enabled a whole lot more women to return to the workforce, or people who have special needs because they don't have to commute to an office every day. It comes back to that trust, you know those employees that have that flexibility give you a lot more productivity because they have that ability to go and pick the kids up from school. And that's guys and girls as well, you know, fathers through COVID decided actually this is quite cool I can go and pick the kids up from school and then jump on after they go to bed at night and still get great work done. So I think, you know, the way we have changed working has changed forever, it will never go back to full-time in the office in my view. It's always going to be hybrid. But people have choices, some people like to go to the office, some people can't think of anything worse.

Nikolai Beilharz: Susan from Stirling has been in touch on the text line saying I'm so sick to death of everything being about the employees, when will you consider the employers? Which in a sense goes to the broader question as well Natasha about how the pendulum swings back and forth between working from home and for at least some companies a push to get people back into the office to have that higher level of accountability and things like that. How would you describe how that pendulum is swinging at the moment?

Natasha Hawker: It's definitely, so through COVID it swung to the employee obviously, we were all forced legally to go home and work from home. There was a strong push after COVID from employers and we've seen that in our business to get everyone back in the office. And most of them could push to about three to four days a week, but that fifth day was really, really difficult. And the ones that really forced it, people voted with their feet and went to employers that were more flexible. I totally hear what your caller is saying, as an employer the market is tightening up, and there are 97% of businesses in Australia are small businesses and they are doing it really tough at the moment Nikolai. And I think they are, their margins are being squeezed, they're struggling, the economy has a lot of uncertainty, interest rates are going up, and all of that is getting pushed downstream through their supply chains and they are really struggling. And it's going to get to a point where I can see it's moving into more layoffs and redundancy programmes which we're already starting to hear from some of our clients that they're going to probably need to let a few people go. And as I said with the increase in numbers of people who are applying for jobs, that sort of follows through.

Nikolai Beilharz: And do you think that's potentially where some of the frustration comes from, is like you say if you've got all these pressures on you as the business owner or as the employer, and then they go and they want to work from home on top of that? That kind of line of thought?

Natasha Hawker: Yeah I think there's a lot going on for a business owner, you know, they've got several balls in the air at once and there's a lot of uncertainty out there and when there's uncertainty people can't make decisions. And I think, you know, what we talk about is an employee value proposition. What's in it for the candidate to work for you? And I would argue as an employer the fundamental thing is you want 90%, 80% of your workforce to be A-players, and if that means you've got to offer some flexibility, that might be worth considering.

Nikolai Beilharz: Natasha, stay with us, but Linda from Port Vincent has been in touch with us. Linda, what did you want to tell us about?

Linda: Yes, I agree with your speaker that the market is changing or has changed. I work in a professional capacity and I see a lot of roles in the not-for-profit and government requiring employees to work from Adelaide two days a week. So if you're working, if you're living in regional South Australia, unless you have a second property and you're able to absorb the cost of travel, you are just being precluded from the workforce even though that the collective pool of talent in regional and remote SA is outstanding. So it's definitely been a trend I've seen this year where I've been actively looking for work, but it is this "yes we've got this amazing role but you need to be in the office in Adelaide two days a week". And the argument that we want local businesses in Adelaide to have the lunch and the coffee moneys, well what about the businesses in the regional towns as well that are benefiting from having, particularly women, professional women, qualified women, wanting to work but actually having to take very basic jobs because that flexibility has swung and often as it's been brought up before, it's to do with the lack of confidence and insecurities of the managers that they're not trusting these exceptional staff that come on board to actually do their job. So it's a really disappointing trend and particularly for those who are working in regional and remote and who have may have moved out during COVID because it was cheaper or a better lifestyle. So I just wanted to raise that that this is a trend now, this two days a week in Adelaide, or perhaps it's in Melbourne as well, is a thing and it's impacting the talent pool that's available.

Nikolai Beilharz: Linda, I'm grateful to you for bringing it to our attention. Natasha, I might get you to respond to that point from Linda about people who are living in the regions and maybe have that great level of expertise or great level of experience and feel a bit blocked out.

Natasha Hawker: I think Linda raises an amazing point, and I think one of the things that happened during COVID is people took the opportunity to move out of very expensive CBD locations like Adelaide. And so what that has meant is that now the pendulum's swinging back, they may be very happy to work for those organisations and not for profit let's be clear, they struggle to hire anyway because they tend to pay a lower salary base, so it surprises me that they are being a bit choosy. I know why the government's done it, it's a strategy as Linda said about moving people back into the CBD, but remember what happened to coffee shops in suburbia and out in rural areas, they made a motza. So you know there's different parts of it. But I think I keep coming back to is finding great talent is hard enough. The last thing you want to do is wipe out a portion of highly talented individuals just because you want them to physically sit on a seat. That doesn't make them productive in an office. You've got plenty of people who sit in seats in the office that are not productive. So I would encourage people to trust their employees, and it always worries me when you start with trust and then if they let you down then you move back, but recruitment, have a great recruitment process, the trust isn't even an issue.

Nikolai Beilharz: Natasha, I really appreciate your time this afternoon, thank you.

Natasha Hawker: My pleasure.