Founder and Managing DirectorNatasha is a leading HR expert, entrepreneur, author and sought-after media commentator for outlets such as Sunrise (Channel 7), ABC Radio and The Australian Financial Review. Natasha co-founded Employee Matters in 2011 to help Australian businesses achieve success through their people.
Australia is currently grappling with a significant productivity gap, and business leaders are searching for answers. But what if the root of the problem isn't the workforce itself, but rather how we choose and train our managers?
Recently, Natasha Hawker, Managing Director of Employee Matters, sat down with Anwar Khalil on the Martian Logic HRIS Podcast to tackle this exact issue. In a candid, 45-minute discussion, they unpacked the heavy cost of bad management, the changing landscape of HR compliance, and what Australian businesses must do to build high-performing teams.
Here are the key takeaways every business owner and HR professional needs to know.
The "Peter Principle" in Australian Business
One of the most provocative questions raised during the podcast was: Are managers simply being promoted to their level of incompetence? Often, businesses promote their best technical workers—the top salesperson, the most brilliant engineer—into management roles. However, the skills required to be a great individual contributor are vastly different from the skills required to lead people. Without proper leadership training, these new managers struggle, leading to what is known as the "Peter Principle." When managers fail to lead effectively, productivity plummets, and good employees leave.
The Hidden Financial Cost of Disengagement
A lack of capable leadership directly correlates to employee disengagement. During the episode, Natasha highlighted a startling statistic: a disengaged employee can cost a business up to 34% of their annual salary. This hidden cost seeps out through:
- Increased absenteeism and "sickies."
- Lower output and poor-quality work.
- Toxic impacts on overall team morale.
- The high cost of eventual turnover and recruitment.
Investing in proper management training isn't just an HR initiative; it is a critical commercial strategy for business growth.
Diminishing "Accountability Muscles"
Why do so many issues in the workplace go unresolved? Often, it comes down to a diminishing "accountability muscle." Many leaders are fundamentally conflict-averse and actively avoid having difficult conversations with underperforming staff.
When bad behavior or poor performance is tolerated, the standard for the entire team drops. At Employee Matters, we advocate for training leaders to flex that accountability muscle. Having clear, compassionate, yet firm conversations is essential for maintaining a culture of high performance and mutual respect.
Navigating the Complexities of Modern HR
The conversation didn't stop at leadership. Natasha and Anwar also dove deep into the rapidly evolving regulatory and technological landscape that Australian businesses must navigate:
- New Legislation: The complexities of navigating unfair dismissal, psychological safety requirements, and the new positive duty regarding sexual harassment laws. Ignorance of these laws is no longer a defense, and the financial penalties for getting it wrong are severe.
- The AI Revolution: How Artificial Intelligence is already reshaping workforce planning. AI is changing how we approach redundancies, HR compliance, and legal risks, making it more important than ever to have robust, forward-thinking HR strategies in place.
- Measuring Success: Natasha shared the top three metrics Employee Matters recommends for accurately measuring team performance and ensuring your workforce is aligned with your business goals.
Need Help Building a High-Performing Team?
If the topics discussed in this podcast sound all too familiar, you don't have to tackle them alone. Whether you need to upskill your management team, navigate complex employment laws, or build a strategy to re-engage your workforce, Employee Matters is here to help.
Contact Employee Matters today to find out how we can help you build a highly engaged, productive, and legally compliant team.
Employee Relations Compliance Score Calculator
Answer a few quick questions to uncover your compliance risks and get an instant, confidential report.

Australian Employee Relations Legislation Resource Hub
There is a significant amount of mandatory Employment Relations legislative change that impacts you and every other business in Australia now. Our resource hub is designed to help you understand these wide-ranging changes.
Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Act
Access this concise Closing Loopholes Bill summary and guide detailing the proposed changes to the Fair Work Act, and the implications for employers:

Get in Touch
Tell us a bit about your business and we’ll be in touch to:
- Understand the challenges that are holding your team or growth back
- Show you how our embedded HR and Recruitment Experts can solve problems faster, without the overheads
- Identify high-impact areas where HR and Recruitment support could save you time, stress, and money
- Map out a tailored approach based on your goals, industry, and internal capabilities
Alternatively, you can call us on (02) 8021 4206.

